Ep9: Making a Sustainability Pledge for your business

Adam Hall, Head of Sustainability at Internet Fusion Group

Making a sustainability pledge for your business might sound like something only big brands need to worry about. But when choosing which businesses to buy from, today’s consumers are looking at more than just price. Sustainability and positive environmental impact are becoming key factors that influence their buying decisions.

Adam Hall is Head of Sustainability at Internet Fusion Group, an online retailer with 11 websites catering for outdoor adventure and sporting enthusiasts. From surfing to equestrian, and motorcross to Alpine sports, they are the go-to niche retailer.

Internet Fusion Group works with thousands of brands, developing practical ways to reduce their carbon footprint and plastic consumption. Adam has a wealth of knowledge and experience in this area, and his job is finding tangible ways of creating a positive environmental impact on a day-to-day basis.

Adam speaks to our podcast host about the practical ways he’s helped many businesses in making a sustainability pledge and creating sustainable change.

From ocean water quality to the air we breathe, Adam talks passionately about why small businesses play such a crucial role in the fight against climate change.

Adam discusses collaborating with organisations such as the 2Minute Beach Clean and Protect Our Waters. He also outlines real steps that start-ups and entrepreneurs can take to reduce their environmental impact and boost their profitability.

We hope you enjoy this episode. Get in touch for more information on how we can support your business start-up journey.

Interested in finding out more about what Internet Fusion Group does? Visit https://www.internetfusion.co.uk.

Read the full transcript here

Announcer (00:01):

Welcome to the Outset Podcast, the business startup podcast from Outset Cornwall, for support and inspiration to start, run and grow your business. Here’s your host Rich Gunton.

Rich Gunton (00:16):

Welcome to the Outset Podcast. Adam Hall joins us. He loves surfing. He’s been doing it since he was eight years old. He loves being on the beach. He’s Head of Sustainability for the Internet Gusion Group, and he’s on a quest to do all he can to educate and inform everyone to take a little bit of notice. So Adam, welcome to the Outset Podcast.

Adam Hall (00:37):

Thank you. Thanks for having me, everyone.

Rich Gunton (00:40):

You’re very welcome. You’re very welcome. So tell us a little bit about yourself then, and then also a little bit about the Internet Fusion Group if you can.

Adam Hall (00:47):

I was brought up in Devon. I lived in the countryside for a long time and pretty soon immigrated to the beach when I was nice and young. I love for the ocean. So yeah, I guess that’s where my appreciation for the natural world comes from beautiful, beautiful part of the world. And to see the effects that have actually happened in my lifetime is quite dramatic. I love the outdoors and I’ve always being concerned with it. So it was a natural fit for me to work in the action sports or outdoor industry in sustainability, which is what I do. So, I’ve always worked in the surfing industry from day one, actually where my office is now just across the road was where my first job was in a surfboard factory. And I’ve worked in every single element of the surfing industry and the outdoor industry. I took a break to train in sustainability and then returned with sustainability back to the industry that I know so well. So who is the Internet Fusion Group? We’re an online retailer and we have 11 websites currently and they are all outdoors websites that cater for enthusiasts of their sports. So anything from surfing, obviously through to equestrian, motorcross, scuba diving, outdoor sports, Alpine sports, we’re a niche retailer for these sports. And the model that we have is we take what we call the squeezed middle. So websites that are specialists that are being squeezed by the Amazons and eBays of this world. And then also brands who are selling direct to customers. And in the middle, we have these specialist retailers that curate ranges of really good quality products. And what we do is we take those businesses and we offer to buy them. We maintain a specialist staff so that the buyers, the people that really are ingrained in those sports and know what they’re doing. And we bring them in to gain the economies of scale of a nice big, sustainable warehouse, sustainable packaging, sustainable practices around carbon reductions. And obviously you get things like an accounts team, a marketing team. So what that leaves you with is those specialists have taken away the shackles of running a business and actually they can just specialize in what they do. So yeah, that’s us: Internet Fusion Group.

Rich Gunton (02:52):

Fantastic. All right. That sounds great. And so you mentioned there the word sustainability a few times, that’s your, that’s your bag, I suppose. And is that your role? So what is it? What is sustainability then if we start nice and simple.

Adam Hall (03:07):

Well, let’s go straight to the ultimate. What is the ultimate aim of sustainability? And that is a circular economy and that’s where everything we use is circular. Nothing’s wasted, nothing’s taken and we move away from that, that linear economy: take, make dispose. That’s not working because we’ve got a ball, which is our planet with finite resources. So we can’t just keep on taking from the eartgh and just throwing it away. Everything needs to be circular. Everything before humans was in a circular motion. So everything that dies goes back into energy for something else. We need to do that with us. You know, we need to learn from nature and go back to that. So that’s things like renewable energy. We can’t keep on thinking stuff up the ground and burning it and warming up the planet. We can’t keep on creating packaging and products that just simply get thrown away. So the ultimate sustainability is a circular economy. However, sustainability is all about fundamentally not taking more than we need. As I said, we’ve got a finite planet and actually we reach earth overshoot day pretty much around July or August every year. And that’s where we’ve used up the annual amount of resources for the year. So actually we use one and a half’s worth of planet’s resources every year. You don’t have to be a mathematician to figure out we can’t keep on doing that. It’s about handing over resources and a livable functioning, healthy planet to the next generation. It’s about not being selfish really.

Rich Gunton (04:42):

Circular economy. So we’re moving away from the take, the make and the dispose. I think that makes perfect sense. And it’s probably, I don’t know what previous generations, if we go back, you know, 1, 2, 3 generations, what they were thinking, what sort of world we were going to inherit. And as you say, you know, looking at future generation or two, and what we’re kind of passing on. You sent a across a link, which is you in a video, and you’re talking about a time for change and you had some sort of pretty dramatic statistics on there. And I think one of the slides was a girl on a beach, surrounded by plastic bottles. Just talk us through what that particular video is all about, but also about that sort of vision that if we don’t get it right now, it’s not going to be that long. We’re not talking about number of generations in way in the future. We’re talking about pretty, pretty soon aren’t we?

Adam Hall (05:35):

We’re reaching a few tipping points with a lot of things that’s going on. We are, I think it might’ve even been Attenborough that says we’re the first generation that knows what’s going on and to know what to do about it. And we’re the last generation that can do anything about it before it really slips away. YIts of the utmost importance, you know, and everything else is built on sand. If the environment collapses, it doesn’t matter about your economy. It doesn’t matter about human health. It doesn’t matter about anything else because if our life support system collapses and then we’re done for. That particular image, I mean, it reminds me of my five-year-old daughter who loves pink. That particular image you’re talking about. And I had a fear that in that image, she’d turn around and look at me as a teenager and say, well, the hell have you done with the place? What are you thinking? There’s some pretty dramatic stats in it. And it’s very easy to slip into the doom and gloom, but sometimes we do need a bit of a shock treatment. There’s a lot going on, I think that the new report, the Pure Report says 13 tons of plastic finds its way to the ocean every year, that’s over a rubbish truck every minute.This is reducing the ocean’s capacity to produce oxygen. Every second breath you take is from the oxygen from the ocean. It’s killing Marine life, it’s coming up the food chain into us. It’s causing human health problems. And amongst all this, the the fossil fuel industry is ramping up plastic production, despite all of this. And they’re stockpiling to make a play on the stock markets. They’re stockpiling plastic, and it’s just pure insanity and it has to stop. And I think everybody realizes the best way to tackle plastic pollution is at source and to turn off the plastic tap. There’s also really clear links between plastic and climate change, and climate change is the apex issue. Sorry, second apex issue if you like, because biodiversity loss is the biggest. But climate change is very real it’s happening. And we’re reaching a few tipping points right now. Things like rain forests, because we’ve raised the temperature so high, the temperature is limiting their ability to absorb carbon. That’s scary. The ice is melting and it’s releasing more locked up greenhouse gases, which is accelerating the issues. Also the white, snow or ice that would reflect heat is going, and it’s exposing darker rock, which is absorbing more heat. It’s a runaway situation that I think my major point here is actually, we need to think of sustainability as a whole. It’s not a plastic problem in one hand, the climate problem in another hand, and biodiversity, and pollution. They’re all interlinked because actually they all influence each other. So actually we need to take concerted efforts across the board with everything.

Rich Gunton (08:14):

Absolutely agree. And you know, those that are listening to this podcast may not be, but most of them will be either in business, very small business or thinking about becoming self-employed. And so in terms of the steps that you take within your organization, you mentioned the circular economy with the internet brands that you have and in the warehouse, how do you guys avoid that ‘take, make and dispose’ type of process. And then also, how can we start to think about ourselves as small business owners, how we can sort of implement some of those processes that you guys have already adopted.

Adam Hall (08:51):

We’ve reached 99.8, 1% plastic free for outbound packaging, and we have drastically reduced our carbon emissions massively, since 2018, and it’s well in line for some of our net zero targets, we’re well on the way. That’s us, but you know, SMEs are very different and we do work with a lot of brands. We have about a thousand brands and they fit into that bracket. So we’re consistently trying to help them on this journey because essentially the more sustainable they are, the more sustainable we are because they supply us. How do you go about it? Well, I think it’s really key here to understand that perfect is the enemy of the good. There’s so many businesses out there that say, we’re not very good with sustainability, so we don’t want to talk about it. No do what you can. You don’t have to reach a hundred percent right away. It’s about taking those small steps and it’s not easy and we’re not going to reach a fully sustainable society or business community in our lifetime. And that’s okay. As long as we are doing something and we’re making concerted solid efforts in every area that we possibly can, because it will be the next generation that we pass that Baton to, to actually, perhaps the next next generation again, before we realize a sustainable human race, if you like. We shouldn’t beat ourselves up about not being perfect. But we just need to hand a decent Baton over to the next generation and go look, we’ve given you a couple of stepping stones. We’ve given you a headstart off you go. My fundamental point is don’t beat yourself up. Don’t feel like you have to be quiet, just be honest, and just make concerted real efforts. And don’t greenwash, you know, don’t overstate what you’re doing. Just be honest and say, look, we’re not perfect, but this is what we’re doing. But I think you’re going to ask me about some specific points that we should actually, we can really get cracking with right.

Rich Gunton (10:43):

By my desk here is a box that’s arrived from Amazon, which inside that box is a much smaller product that was actually ordered and all around that product there’s a whole load of air blown plastic, I suppose it is, or polythene in a cardboard box. That’s then been delivered here to our home. Not all of those are positives in terms of what you’re talking about, I guess.

Adam Hall (11:05):

Sustainability and getting started with all of those elements that you just discussed. There’s two fundamental points here. There’s number one, sustainability shouldn’t cost. The first rule of sustainability is to reduce. So if you’re looking at that example, you’ve got the Amazon box next to you. If you reduce that packaging, it would save you money. So if you can reduce your energy use, if you can reduce the packaging that you buy or the extra resources that are going to landfill, or if you reduce the amount of journeys that your products have to go on, or you consolidate orders so that they all come at once, so it’s less carbon emissions from feight. All of those things reduce your impact on the environment and then reduce your costs. So I think the second point here is everything you do, just give yourself a couple of seconds and we’re all busy people, I get it. And particularly if you’re a small business, you have to have your marketing head on, your finance head on, you have to have your HR hat on and you’re doing everything. And suddenly it’s like, well, I’ve got to put a sustainability head on as well. I get that, but just give yourself a few seconds. Just give yourself a few minutes, just to think, am I choosing the most sustainable option here? And that’s the start. I’m going to order some packaging or I’m going to order X, Y or Z for the business, or we need a new bank account, you know, should I be banking with certain banks because they’re using my money to go towards fossil fuels. Just give yourself a few minutes. And we’re in an age of information. There’s no excuse to say you don’t know any more because it’s not ‘I don’t know’, it’s ‘I didn’t have time to look’ because you can find that information. And I would just say to everybody, give yourself a couple of minutes and just make sure that you’re making the most sustainable option you possibly can with the budget and resources that you’ve got. And that’s the best that we can all do.

Rich Gunton (12:56):

You mentioned there about having, your finance, accounting head-on and your marketing hat on, and all those sorts of things, which are the wonders of any small business. If we’ve got our marketing head on in terms of the positive message that we’re passing across then to our customer base and to our supplier base. And, and even outwards, potentially as unique selling points or propositions from our competition that does lend itself to a positive and having some pretty strong policies. Would you agree?

Adam Hall (13:26):

Yeah, absolutely. It’s banded around time and time again; there was a Financial Times article in 2016 saying businesses with purpose, particularly in sustainability have more profit. It’s obvious you attract good quality customers that want to shop with you and potentially want good quality service products so they’re willing to pay, so businesses better. You attract good employees because they want to work with a business that has purpose. You work with the right businesses because they want to be associated with you. It’s a positive cycle that you go through from a marketing point of view. You’ll find that the mega corporates are now doing this. There is a gentleman called Philip Kotler, who is the marketing guru of the planet: If he speaks you listen. And he’s saying that we’re in the third phase of marketing: The first phase was the industrial revolution. You’ve got railroad tracks, I need them, I’m going to buy them from you. The second phase was, customer orientated, consumer orientated marketing. So that’s where people were buying because you’ve maybe supported their local team, or you wanted to buy British for example, but now we’re moving into a third phase and that’s values driven marketing, and that’s where people are buying based on their values. You know, they understand that a brand or a business caters to their values and they’ll choose that business based on that. And that’s happening. As I said, the mega corporates are doing this. And, um, and you’re finding, you know, businesses are doing it down the scale from there. It’s certainly got its benefits, you know, eventually it will become the norm, but at the moment it’s having a sustainability record can be quite unique and it can be a competitive advantage. It can make you stand out from the crowd. It will make you make you feel better sitting down for Christmas dinner and telling you your family, what your business does outside of, you know, making sure you’ve got a roof over your head.

Rich Gunton (15:12):

Sitting down to a Christmas dinner, it feels like a many moons ago now. I am talking to Adam Hall, Head of Sustainability for the Internet Fusion Group. So Adam, you mentioned before that the company that you work for brings on board and acquires different businesses. What are some of the things that you as a group change in the sustainability space, if you like that someone could just have almost like a checklist go; okay, great, I can make that change today.

Adam Hall (15:45):

You can do a plastic audit of your business. You know, every time you buy things, you can decide not to buy unnecessary plastic. That’s the first thing we need to get rid of. If it’s not necessary to get rid of it, if it’s single use, you got to reconsider and then look at all the other elements of plastic, that’s pretty simple to do. And just, just go for alternatives, you know, it’s 2021, now it’s time to do that. The other very simple one is get yourself on a renewable electricity contract and a bio gas contract. It’s probably about five, six years ago now, but, renewable electricity contracts were cheaper than 50% of fossil fuel contracts. Why would you go for a fossil fuel contract? You know, start looking at energy efficiency across your organization. Again, as I said earlier, that comes with cost savings. So looking at ways to reduce your overheads, reduce your demand on electricity or gas grid or whatever energy you’re consuming. That will come with cost savings. And then I think beyond that, there’s a couple of schemes that we have set up and these will be really, really fundamentally useful to any SME. And we’ve set it up for the brands that we deal with. We support a charity called Protect Our Winters, and we’ve developed something called the POW Pledge. Now this is eight of the most impactful steps you can take to reduce your impact on climate change. It’s designed for organizations just to take action. It’s not about paperwork. It’s not about tying you up in knots because we know that SMEs are busy organizations. It’s literally a process of taking you through eight of the biggest things you can possibly do. And it’s a guide. It’s a toolkit. So you don’t have to go and search or get to sustainability consultants, or you don’t have to learn about it yourself. It is laid out on a plate, all it asks in return is that you set some dates as to when you’re going to achieve those things. So that’s one thing. We also support a charity called Two Minute Beach Clean based in Bude. And they have a series of different books by their founder, Martin Dory, that will tell you how to reduce your plastic within your organization. And actually there’s going to be a toolkit there as well, coming very, very soon, which is going to be really useful. Then I think the final point is to use your influence. You know it’s all very well us doing our work in our little silos in our organizations, but actually we got to realize that we’re part of either a business community or our customer’s community. And I think we’ve got to start influencing them and actually telling them what we’re doing. And, and, and actually before, you know, it, you’ll be striking up these relationships with your suppliers, with your customers, and they’ll be like, wow, you know, and that they want to be involved. And suddenly your organization grows into this more holistic approach to being a part of a business community or society as a whole. I think that’s really important to make sure we use our influence, and that can be in a form of marketing or a can be in a form of going to further businesses and saying, Hey, what are you doing? Should we team up? Should we do some more stuff?

Rich Gunton (18:37):

The POW Pledge that you talk about, Protect Our Winters, and the 2Minute Beach Clean, and The Wave Project, they’re all listed on your website InternetFusion.co.uk. I’m just having a look at those. It’s wider than just us. Here we are, we can do our plastic audit and we can look at where we’re spending our money and all the rest of it as a small business today, but also thinking about who are those organizations that we do support or we partner with, or supply to, or from, who our customers are. I think that’s the change. And as you said, you used the phrase a couple of times in terms of society, when we think about sustainability, that’s, what’s going to really empower everyone to sort of make a quite a key difference.

Adam Hall (19:22):

The sustainability space is a really nice space because it’s non-competitive, everybody’s trying to raise the bar and we can’t do that on our own. You can’t, you can’t hold your secrets. You know, so you’ll find that businesses are very open on their tactics, on how to reduce their impact on the environment. And actually it’s a really nice level to meet your other businesses on or suppliers because you’ll find it is this non-competitive space. And you’ll find that you’ll be sharing ideas and actually, okay, let’s try this together. And actually you can grow partnerships on, in that sustainability space by meeting them there, it’s a really positive space to be working in and very fulfilling.

Rich Gunton (19:59):

Well, we’re recording this on a, on a Tuesday afternoon, I was going to say a rainy Tuesday afternoon, but it’s not it’s all right. It’s just gone four o’clock. You are the Head of Sustainability at the organization that you work for. I know obviously what you’re doing right now, but what’s a normal Tuesday afternoon look like for you. What does your role involve?

Adam Hall (20:17):

It’s quite broad. I do spend quite a lot of time in the warehouse under normal circumstances. The last year I haven’t. And we’re proud of our big gray box because it’s just outside the top 1%, most sustainable buildings in the country. I break up what I do in my day into true sustainability. So that would be things like making sure that our recycling systems are really up to speed and really working well and working with the brands to make sure that they are only sending us packaging, that we can recycle and fits into our recycling stream. So working on policies with those guys. So that’s what I call true sustainability. We also work on lots of carbon reporting and, and trying to look at ways to fine tune those final bits of carbon, which we want to eliminate. And then we have, what’s called what I call marketing, sustainability marketing. So that’s things like something that’s much more public facing. So that’s things like encouraging our customers to choose more sustainable products through, through listings, on our websites and actually working with our charity partners on different communications and and ways to bring our customers along the journey. So essentially I split it into three categories if you like, so you’ve got what we do in our own own operations. That’s kind of true work if you like true sustainability work and then how we can influence our supply chain. So up the tree so that the thousand or brands that we work with. Then how we can influence our customers to make more sustainable choices. And that’s kind of more of the marketing side of things. It’s very varied, you ask me one day and it’ll be totally different from the next.

Rich Gunton (21:55):

Which is why you do it, it makes it interesting, I guess.

Adam Hall (21:58):

Yeah, absolutely. It keeps you going during the days. Yeah.

Rich Gunton (22:01):

It’s internetfusion.co.uk is the website, forward slash sustainability, where you’ve obviously got your own section on there and just reading some of the quotes and some of the articles that are freely available on there are fantastic. So that’s probably an obvious space for people to go as a sort of a next step. You happy for people to sort of make contact with your good self.

Adam Hall (22:20):

Yeah, of course. I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn. That’s probably the best place you can see the latest of what we’re up to. And if there’s any questions I can point you in the direction of the POW Pledge, which would be really great. It’s literally set up perfectly for your listeners and SMEs. And then we can obviously let you know a little bit more once the 2Minute organization have together the plastics pledge as well. So yeah, absolutely.

Rich Gunton (22:44):

Great. It is interesting when you think about print or packaging and a lot of work, even if we look at the local councils, there’s so many obvious things that every single organization can do to make a real change. I think it’s, being honest with ourselves, coming up with a bit of a target that we at least do something in the, in that direction on a regular basis. And we have it in our business plan and it’s just the same as reviewing our financials or our marketing or our branding. It’s a key part of our business process. I suppose that nowadays, isn’t it?

Adam Hall (23:18):

It is, sustainability is a function of a modern business. You know, it’s no longer to the person with the long hair and the tye-dye t-shirt in the back of the room claiming we should plant some more trees. Sustainability is functional and it’s recognized. And it’s people that do it well, will realize savings within their business, you know, from the bottom line. But the HR team appreciates it because they’re getting better employees, your operations teams are appreciating it because you’re finding efficiencies. It’s very practical because there’s technology, that’s coming into place. Things like solar PV, all the renewable technologies, you can install on buildings. There’s wins all the way across with how technology is reducing our need to use so much transport and deliveries and packaging solutions. You know, reusable, packaging solutions are coming into play and infrastructure on how to use those, and they all come with benefits. It’s not always just purely reduction on an environmental impact. It’s, you know, there’s that they all come with different benefits. And I think Chris Hines, who’s a sustainability guru who’s based in Cornwall, one of the founders of Surfers Against Sewage, he has always said, For years and years, probably talking decades now: that actually sustainable options have to be better. You know, there is always this misconception that if you chose a sustainable option, it was always a bit worse and a bit more expensive and you had to sacrifice things and that can’t be the case. Sustainable options have to be better and they have to be at the same price. And I’m really pleased to say from what I can see, how quickly sustainable options have evolved as Chris says, they are better in lots of different areas. It’s just finding the time to source those really and I appreciate that’s tough for any SME.

Rich Gunton (25:01):

Indeed. And I bet underneath that jumper that you’re wearing, you have got a tie-dye t-shirt on.

Adam Hall (25:09):

I did actually wear a shirt for this and it’s actually a bit cold. So I’ve, I’ve stuck with the scarf and the fleece.

Rich Gunton (25:17):

But it is interesting, you know, I don’t mean to mock, but you know, when you mentioned about, your tie-dye people, with their hair tied back and as you say no longer is it just our eco warriors. If you over a better phrase that perhaps we all see ourselves in that kind of space nowadays with the pandemic, and as you say with technology, do we really need to jump on a train or get on a coach or drive to meet people in person? I mean, there is a society and certainly our lovely Englishness of how our culture works, but it would be interesting. And I’m sure there’s all sorts of studies that have been measured over the last, you know, six to 12 months through lockdown, through people working from home, where there hasn’t been that carbon emissions, et cetera, across the country, and indeed the world having a positive impact in that way, I suppose.

Adam Hall (26:08):

It’s got us questioning, do we need to be going at this speed? Do we need to be just hairing around the country multiple times? And yeah, absolutely. You know, pollution in cities is down. However, it’s a little bit of a misconception because actually it’s only about 12 to 15% of carbon emissions been reduced during the the first series of lockdowns. And actually some of the reports are now saying that carbon emissions have gone beyond pretty locked down levels. So we haven’t unfortunately learned very much from this situation, which is a bit of a shame, but there are benefits to it to actually not traveling around much. And I think the knock on effects is where it would be really interesting, you know, because we’re not putting wear and tear on vehicles on roads. Those elements come with carbon emissions as well. So purely on travel carbon, obviously the aviation industries are in a tough spot, but we’re flying less. So that’s been reduced, but let’s not forget that a lot of our energy and a lot of our infrastructure is still run on fossil fuels. So if you put to one side reduced travel emissions, it is still out there. We still got a lot of work to do.

Rich Gunton (27:15):

Do you think there’s still a lot of work to do for the likes of Elon Musk and the electric car and electric vehicles across the board in terms of its impact? You know, what do you think about that space

Adam Hall (27:25):

Everything you do has the naysayers. And you’ll find that actually, what will happen is the fossil fuel industry who is absolutely huge $420 trillion a year that they’re worth, they managed to put little bits of media out there that actually will infiltrate certain areas of the media that actually we all pick up on and suddenly we’re anti this or anti that, and it is not our own voices. It’s the fossil fuel industries voice. You know, electric cars and what Elon Musk is doing it is not perfect. But as I said, we can’t wait for perfect. We don’t have the time. We need to take steps forward. And we need to realize that those steps forwards will not be in an absolutely perfect direction, but we have to progress. So if you hold back progression, we’re just going to be way behind. So, I think electrifying is certainly a positive direction and I think we should all embrace it for what it is. We don’t need to embrace it because it’s the perfect solution. We can’t wait for that. We need to start thinking about that. And, and throughout the Southwest, you know, there’s a policy that we’re taking. Throughout the Southwest, there are options to do short term rentals of electric cars. You can do it with a phone app, you can scan your phone and pick it up wherever it is, these things are happening. So when we’re talking about business travel and we get need to go back out there, you know, we don’t have to jump in your, your big diesel cars and chug around the country. You can lease these electric vehicles and let’s give it a go, just try and support those, those steps in the right direction.

Rich Gunton (28:56):

I think that’s very true. Only the other day one of our Outset Cornwall business startups, they’re looking at e-bike rentals and those sorts of things. And I do think that it is fantastic as a recreational option. And I think it will change in the coming years, our mindset into jumping in the car where, you know, the argument is, well, if I want to drive from here to London firstly, do I need to do that. Secondly, is the electric battery going to get me all the way et cetera. But I think those things will change quite dramatically in the very near future.

Adam Hall (29:30):

Maybe one of the most rapid changes we see in sustainability is how quickly we’re all going to be in electric cars. I think that’s going to be remarkable. Definitely.

Rich Gunton (29:39):

Adam Hall is with us on the Outset Podcast, Head of Sustainability at the Internet Fusion Group. Adam, it’s over to you. What’s your, your last final few words?

Adam Hall (29:49):

I’m going to steal Chris Hine’s quote, he’s one of the founders of Surfers Against Sewage and one of his quotes. And that is to care. The moment you actually care the moment you’ll start doing things about it. You know, we were based in the Southwest. It’s a beautiful part of the country. It’s a beautiful part of the world. We’ve got to care for it. We’ve all realized in lockdown how important the natural world is to us and how it gives us solace and how it gives us wellbeing and how much we depend on it. We depend on it more than you’d ever know. Every second breath comes from the ocean. Nature’s providing us with the oxygen we fill our lungs with. So care, you know, the moment you start caring, the moment you start thinking about those decisions that you make. And as I said, pause, try and make the most sustainable decision you possibly can.

Rich Gunton (30:34):

Adam, it’s been absolutely lovely talking to you. Thank you so much for joining us.

Adam Hall (30:37):

Brilliant. Thanks. Rich. Good luck to everyone out there. Go for it.

Announcer (30:42):

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